performance friction brake system

[XDevolution]

i see the rally xd is running a performance friction brake system. now it looks like the caliper size is oem if not slightly bigger then oem. however it doesnt look like the rotora big brake kit. is the performance friction system a big brake kit? or is it just an oem upgrade kit, utilizing stock rotor size? and were would i be able to buy one?

[xd_kidd]

if it ain't a big brake kit then ii wouldnt go for it cause

1. we don't really have a powerhouse machine

2. Its just an upgrade for something we don't really need unless your brake system is f*cked.

now that being said

if it was a big break it, then I would go for it cause it looks good lol

..

supposibly drkness on scionlfie says he heard that there is in fact a rear disc conversion that he doesnt want to let us know yet. better investment on that.

[CXTKRS1]

I have to disagree, if you want better braking performance then just run TRD or some other high performance pads up front. DO NOT run full race pads on a daily driver. The rear disc conversion that is suppose to be coming will be an upgrade mainly in looks. Very little (10%-15%) of our braking comes from the rear of car. The rear brakes main job is to actually keep the car stable under braking so the rear end does not try to come around on you.

[xd_kidd]

Just to clarify
I wasn't comparing the rear disc brakes to the brakes. I'm just saying it wld be a better investment imo

[XDevolution]

i have hawk hps pads and stop tech slotted rotors. they work very good just alot of dust build up from the carbon material. but anyway, the reason i asked is cus.

1. i heard the big brake kit makes the abs kick on sooner because its clamping down much harder than oem.

2. and i just wanted another brake upgrade. from what i see the performance friction system is oem size and just bolts right on, the caliper is lighter and more efficient, i believe its 2 piston as oppose to just one large piston. it seems like a good braking uprade and most likely not as expensive as the bbk cus all ur really doing is upgrading the caliper. best part is it maintains the same rotor size, thats really why i want it. i would love for more info i just cant find it anywhere

[Whack-A-Mole]

I have to disagree, if you want better braking performance then just run TRD or some other high performance pads up front. DO NOT run full race pads on a daily driver. The rear disc conversion that is suppose to be coming will be an upgrade mainly in looks. Very little (10%-15%) of our braking comes from the rear of car. The rear brakes main job is to actually keep the car stable under braking so the rear end does not try to come around on you.

All that is true! Your braking is mainly enforced by the front, but the rear engages first to allow the ass of your car to stay behind you. Drum breaks are horrible though: the drums are heavy and they are not as effective as disk brakes. My first car was a 1968 Mustang, and it had all around non power assist drum brakes. I had a lot of close calls in that thing, but mainly in the rain (lack of abs). The worst close call was when it was dry though. I got some bad advice, and was told I needed to add fuel cleaner and open up the car on the freeway. Turned out later the real problem was a rubber plug on the carb had a vaccum leak. Back to the story, I decided to open up the car on a highway bridge at night since cops can't sit on the side to shoot radar. I end up well above the speed limit cresting the bridge, and I see a cop blocking the slow lane out of the two lanes. So I switch to the fast lane and absolutely stand on the brake pedal. The distance was probably less than a 1/4 mile on the downgrade side of the bridge, but the car didn't slow down at all. I had pressure under the pedal, so they were probably engaging, but it felt as slippery as ice. It felt like the vehicle had to much momentum to even lock up the wheels. I ended up flying past the cop standing outside his car, who did little more than watch me fly by. After that I never drove that car fast again. That's the only car that I've driven that actually scared me to drive.

So I guess the point of the story is drum brakes are fine unless you drive like an ass!

[XDevolution]

i found one website that sells the PF rally brake kit. it cost $2150 :/ thats crazy. its a oem size caliper, 4 piston, lightweight, oem size rotors (slotted or dimpled) mounting hardware, theres a color option as well. the website is horse power freaks. ima just stick to performance pads and rotors. that price is ridiculous.

[Whack-A-Mole]

Throw up a link, man! I wanna see.

[XDevolution]

ok here it is http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/performanceparts/Scion/xD/Brakes/Big_Brake_Kits

[htheduck]

If you want better braking distance, replace (if any) your OE all season tires.

If you are having heat issues or want to change characteristics of unsprung mass with a BBK then go for it!

The PF kit looks good with lighter calipers and 2 pc rotors...just prepare your $ cost plan for replacement parts.

What do you intend to do with the car? This information would help.

[CXTKRS1]

i found one website that sells the PF rally brake kit. it cost $2150 :/ thats crazy. its a oem size caliper, 4 piston, lightweight, oem size rotors (slotted or dimpled) mounting hardware, theres a color option as well. the website is horse power freaks. ima just stick to performance pads and rotors. that price is ridiculous.

From what I was reading that was only a front kit and if so that price is pretty damn high. Brembo and Wilwood kits are usually cheaper than that.

[XDevolution]

From what I was reading that was only a front kit and if so that price is pretty damn high. Brembo and Wilwood kits are usually cheaper than that.

correct but brembo and wilwood and rotora used over sized disc and calipers. which may not be compatable with the OE wheel size. the PF kit utilizes same size calipers as OE just upgraded with 4 smaller pistons. as well as OE size rotors. thats why it cost alittle more. it would be a perfect fit with no modification needed to make it fit.

[htheduck]

^ I personally doubt the caliper will clear the OE steel wheel.

You would also need to check wheel dimensions to see if it clears an aftermarket wheel's (spoke) design.

XDevolution, Remind us what this upgrade is meant to do for your xD?

[Whack-A-Mole]

I read an article in Dsport mag, written by Dave Coleman. He explains brakes, and how you augment them to what to expect. I'ld have to hunt down my magazine to give you specifics, but basically it should improve the amount of caliper to pad ratio. OEM we have only one piston caliper so many mm wide, and this has four smaller pistons increasing the total diameter of the piston. I would have to read over that again to give you all the in and out. Like I said, it's an article in Dsport by Dave Coleman called "Brakes 201".

---------- Post added at 03:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 AM ----------

I use this site a lot for getting a general idea of stuff. http://www.custom-car.us/safety/brakes.aspx
The article I was talking about earlier is more detailed, but I don't have it with me. I'll see if I can find it when I get home. It's from May.

[CXTKRS1]

correct but brembo and wilwood and rotora used over sized disc and calipers. which may not be compatable with the OE wheel size. the PF kit utilizes same size calipers as OE just upgraded with 4 smaller pistons. as well as OE size rotors. thats why it cost alittle more. it would be a perfect fit with no modification needed to make it fit.

With people running stock brakes on 15 inch rims with no rub issues I think their is a little room to upgrade our OE brakes. If you're dumping 2K+ into brakes then upgrading the rims should also be something your looking into too. ;)

[Whack-A-Mole]

Man they are pricey, it looks like they sell the calipers for 1200 a piece. So with that kit it seems the rotors are free at that price. I also see the caliper model they use is the ZR34, but they have a lot of variations of it. Here's a link to the variants: http://www.performancefrictionbrakes.com.au/caliper_details.php?ID=34.323 I wonder if the pistons have dust covers and how thick our stock rotors are?

[Rally xD]

Everything said has been pretty accurate and on point. Our kit had to be a direct replacement since we were not intending to run larger diameter wheels/offsets for the rally stages. We got a bolt on kit that was lighter and stronger and with additional friction options. We're going to have even more options next year.

If you can't upgrade yet..have any of you tried the TRD pad upgrade?

[htheduck]

^ now there is a reason for modifiying the brake system.
Untill rally xd posted, there has been no purpose stated yet. lol

[XDevolution]

there really is no purpose, using high performance pads and rotors assists other performance mods and should be good enough since our car isnt a power house. people get an intake an exhaust to go alittle faster therefore u will be on the brakes alot more as well. i personally wanted these specific brakes cus they retain oe size and perform above our stock braking system, and i think they look sweet. not a bang for your buck deal but im sure you wont be changing brakes when your supose to, most likely they'll last 3x's longer

---------- Post added at 04:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 PM ----------

i think in the long run they'll be beneficial IMO

[htheduck]

I did a little research on those units, it would appear those zr34 units can handle:

-323 mm diameter rotor, 30-32mm min max thickness and pads approx 19mm thick

I having trouble finding stock OE caliper dimensions, but OE rotors are
-275 mm, 22 mm thick

Now the rest of this discussion is only speculation, simple math, & a stock OE xD model as a basis for specifications from what information I can see on websites-so I cannot claim accuracy, nor fitment from actual experience, xD rally is going to have to chime in here...!

Starting with diameter if you search PF's site (http://www.performancefrictionbrakes.com.au/disc_rotors_by_measurement.php) you can search for rotor sizes from 280.05 - 323 OD. So let's use the max which means you can use any size smaller for your car:

323mm minus 275mm is about a 1.8 inch increase in diameter of rotor, so
you SHOULD need a wheel + 2" larger than stock. +10mm thickness in rotor thickness could MAY require the same wheel to have a specific spoke pattern plus offset to clear the caliper.

Other misc details would be the average cost of $100-$550 per replacement rotor component, (not sure if it includes hardware or not). Then you would have to sit there and torque all those bolts onto the hat, and maybe safety wire them?

The pad shape you require you would only be able to order from specific locations-with various compounds. The existing compounds that fit that caliper usually aren't street specific compounds but more for race applications. They usually run $160-$300 a set.

Definitely post up some pictures, if this is the route you go.

[XDevolution]

Everything said has been pretty accurate and on point. Our kit had to be a direct replacement since we were not intending to run larger diameter wheels/offsets for the rally stages. We got a bolt on kit that was lighter and stronger and with additional friction options. We're going to have even more options next year.

If you can't upgrade yet..have any of you tried the TRD pad upgrade?

are the TRD pads good? im not having problems with the hawk hps pads but they build up way to much dust and the screeching that comes from them is aweful i have to clean the brakes atleast once a week. would the TRD pads be better?

---------- Post added at 10:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 PM ----------

and one question i always had about performance compounds are how long do they last? ive had my hawk hps pads for alittle over 10k miles there is more than half the pad left and i drive spirited, typically how long does a pad last? how many miles?

[htheduck]

Dust & squeeks are what you're gonna get with most pad compounds above stock.

But based on the information you've given, drive another 10K+ miles and you should still be ok. Street driving doesn't make much heat so drive those pads with .25" or less till you swap them.

Pad life is variable: it's all dependent on your range of useage:
-some people can use OE pads to 60K
-I had 47k on my last car with OE pads for street-7 years
-i have race pads from the same car that last 5 days
-i've had a set last me two days (different,heavier car)

[Whack-A-Mole]

I have the TRD brake pads, and have about 30k on them. The break in was fun. It's hard to remember, but I think they dust as much as the oem pads. The TRD pads are ceramic with Kevlar.