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Lets talk springs...
ill update this post as you guys provide the info cuz im tooooo lazy to hunt it all down. lol
Spring brand front drop/ rear drop front spring rate/ rear Springs B&G 1.4/1.4 DF210's 1.9/2.2 3/2.2 DZ Sport 2/2 Eibach Pro 1.2/1 Eibach Sport Line 1.7/1.4 H&R Sport 1.4/1.3 NF210's 1.4/1.7 2.5/2.2 Quote:
2.2/2.2 168/196 LB/In TRD 1/1.5 Coilovers numbers listed are max drops K-sport ??? 224/123 KW V3 2.3/2.3 285/progressive Nex 2.5/2.5 6/4 Quote:
2.8/2.3 224/174 what other options are there and whats the info on these? (the list is in alphabetical order, not drop height order) |
One thing I love about the 210's is you can still do a radical drop yet tuck some 18's in the wheel well. I have heard you can go as big as 245/45/18's without rolling the fender if you run 210's...I cannot confirm this though.
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if you can run that big of a tire with no issues then you could also get away with a 235/35/20 or 19 .... just saying....
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Tanabe coilovers dont have an exact drop rate for them but they go as low as the teins in the rear and about 1 1/2 lower in the front : )
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Stickied
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Progress springs for the xD are 2.2/2.2 just like the S-Techs...
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has anyone ever gave nex a shot?
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hey I found these d2 racing coilovers http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...26tbs%3Disch:1
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D2's are a fairly decent, Company that manufactures them is the same company that manufactures K-Sport. For cheaper brands, being able to service and rebuild in the states is always a good thing to look for. Been rolling on K-sports for about 5000 Miles and love them
added: Also for the K-Sports, ill input a little on the drop amount. I'm came off of DF210s. Drop in the rear is pretty much equal maybe SLIGHTLY lower. drop in the front, I went about 2" lower than DF's in the front for the first week with room to go a little more on the Coilover (but no room in terms of ground clearance LOL). so 4-4.5/2.2? |
I added manufacturer websites and manufacturer to the already excellent list of springs. I also listed the drop the manufacturer says you should get from the springs. This is not to contradict any previous statements about drops, it’s just information from the manufacturer’s website. Drops are list in inches.
SPRINGS B & G S2 Sports Springs (Part# 92.1.084) http://b-gsuspension.com/searchapplicationguide.php5 1.4/1.4 Tanabe Sustec DF 210 (Part# TDF121) http://www.tanabe-usa.com/df210.asp?id=1 1.9/2.2 Tanabe Sustec NF 210 (Part# TNF121) http://www.tanabe-usa.com/nf210.asp?id=2 1.4/1.7 H&R Sport Spring (Part# 54607) http://hrsprings.com/scripts/appguid...Scion%20|%20xD 1.4/1.3 DZ Sport No manufacturer info found 2/2 Eibach PRO-KIT Performance Springs (Part # 8293.140) http://eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe...12042600016874 1.2/1.0 Eibach Sportline (Part# 4.9382) http://eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe...12042600016874 1.7/1.4 Tein S-tech (Part # SKC10-AUB00) http://www.tein.com/tech_info/c10.html 2.2/2.25 TRD (Toyota Racing Development) (Part # PTR11-52081) http://www.trdusa.com/partscatalog.c...=38&vehicle=xd 1/1.5 COILOVERS K-Sport Kontrol Pro Damper System (Part# CSC050-KP) http://www.ksportusa.com/asp/coilove...roduct_id=cd01 Min & Max drops are not listed on the manufacturer’s site Tein Basic Damper (Part# DSC10-LUAS2) http://www.tein.com/tech_info/c10.html (Bottom of page) Min Front drop: 1.57 Max Front drop: 2.91 Min Rear drop: 1.54 Max Rear drop : 2.76 KW Coilover Kit V3 (Part # 35258003) http://www.kw-suspension.com/us/kw_variant_3.php Min Front drop: 1.3 Max Front drop: 2.3 Min Rear drop: 1.2 Max Rear drop : 2.3 Nex Racing SS Series (Part # SS1-SC04) http://www.adrwheels.com/product.php...ilover&cat=119 Min & Max drops are not listed on the manufacturer’s site Tanbe Sustec Pro S-0C (Part# TSC121) Please NOTE: This part is listed as a Yaris 5 door compatible. It may or may not work on a Scion xD. Rates listed are for a Yaris. Drops on an xD would likely be more as the xD is a heavier car than the Yaris. http://www.tanabe-usa.com/s0c.asp?id=6 Min Front drop: +.25 Max Front drop: 1.75 Min Rear drop: 1.25 Max Rear drop : 2.75 |
Frustrating trying to find spring rates, as some sites don't list them. some of the above links do not work btw. if i hear anything back from some manufacturers i'll post my findings. otherwise if you DO know, please post and inform the rest of us.
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well after reading all this it seems I need to go and ge the Tein S-Techs to get that extra inch or so that im looking for. The TRD's i have gave it a good mild drop, but not as low as i had hoped. i don't want to go to the ground, but i want to sit right on top of my tires. it seems like the Teins will get me that extra 3/4 to 1 inch more i need.
i've looked online and seen that they are going for around $200 bucks or so for a set. anybody out there looking to get rid of a set and maybe swap for some TRD's? I may be interested in looking for some kind of trade deal or something like that with my TRDs if someone is interested. |
As far as Springs and Coilovers go with suspension. Im looking for the best quality ride as possible, while factoring smoothness, handling, and how the car will handle bumps in the road. Is this something I could achieve by upgrading my springs/coilovers or both? Not very educated on suspension so just looking for a bit of help. Thanks all
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your suspension is also a personal choice. how low and how much you want to spend. i personally have had TRD lowering springs and now i am riding on Tein S-Techs. overall the Teins lowered it just like i wanted. eliminated all the wheel gap on 18's. personally i think it rides just as well as stock, the only thing i had to do was cut out some of my fender liner beings that i rubbed when i came down off bumps and what not.
coilovers are awesome but a lot more expensive. i got my springs for less than 200 bucks and had them installed in less than two hours in a buddy's drive way. and i haven't yet, but i would recommend changing your shocks also if you go more than 2 inches lower. a lot of my travel has been eliminated. i'll occasionally bottom out on real big bumps |
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finally, referring to the shocks. with TRDs, i dont think it is necessary to buy new shocks. but with the Teins or anything else that would lower you 2" or more, i would eventually get shorter shocks. **i still haven't done this on mine** because you literally take 2" out of the travel of the shock, they will bottom out if your car drops too low; ie, coming off a dip in the road or a bump. personally, i think the Tein S-Techs gives one of the best driveable drops with quality ride. |
Suspension is tricky as far as ride quality. There are multiple factors that play in and multiple things that can be changes to affect it.
anything less than 2" drop new shocks not needed, but ride quality will be affect more by the spring rate. To high and it will be stiff. To Low and it will be soft. 2" or more then new shocks are recommended, but not required. Cutting front bump stops are a must. With this amount of drop then shocks could play a role as well as spring rates. Also body parts could play a role. Shocks may not bottom out for most part I had a first gen with 2inch drop and stock shocks for over a year and never bottomed out the shock and I had NO bump stops. But it depends on roads if you hit a big elevation chnage yes you could bottom out. On xD I think the sway bar end links in the front play a big role it what alot of xDers consider bottoming out. Also hitting the inner fenders if really low can cause rougher ride. Coilovers can be tricky as well. Cheap coilovers that just adjust drive height by moving spring up and down on the perch without compensating shocks will have roughter ride when slammed but maybe decent ride at stock height. But if you get coilovers with dampening abilities. Meaning you can adjust the dampening on the shock/strut then you are set for the most part. Becuase these allow you to stiffen or soften the shock rebounds and compression as needed to give you the perfect overall ride you want for the height you are at. Some places sale just a shock and strut that have dampening capabilities that are not coilovers. so these are options for lower vehicles with just springs. I am on air suspension. Now my ride is the hardest to deal with. too much air and it is like have a high spring rate. It is stiff and bouncy. To little air and it is like a soft spring rate and it feel squishy. I am on stock struts and shocks. The reason I said what I did about the bottoming out is when everything was hooked up like it is (non modified end links) I could ride like I was at about a 2 inch or so drop and if I hit a bump the passenger side strut sound like it bottomed out. But I disconnected the front end links completely and it doesn't do it anymore. only time it sounds like it bottoms out is if I am practically out of air and hit a bump. Now I just need to pull the sway bar all the way off, but from what I see I have to disconnect the steering assembly and drop the complete lower suspension. :( Ok back on topic. Basically it depends on type of ride you are looking for and how low you want and making any necesary compromises between the two. I personally like lowness over ride qaulity for the most part. I have a 94 s10 dropped 6 inches in the back and 5 in the front and frame rails are about 3 inches from the ground. that thing rides like a beast on some bad roads. but on new paved roads it rides like a champ. |
@ Resolve...
i did cut my bump stops when i put my Teins on. cut them basically in half. and as far as the "bottoming out", i assumed i was hitting the end of my shocks. do you think that if i take my bump stops completely out, it will fix the problem? or would that cause more problems later? also, my inner fender liners are basically non existant from rubbing them. can you explain a lil more about the tie ends you were talking about to fix that? or can it be done? |
I was making a general statement on the bump stops. Some people don't cut them for whatever reason and the ride is harsh. removing them completely is your choice. I will say I didn't have them on my xB when I had the teins. it let me sit about 1/4 to 1/2 inch lower in the front and I didn't notice a difference but that was also an xB not an xD.
My inner liners are gone also. :) The stock front sway bar end links mount to the struts. Well most coilovers I believe come with modified endlinks so you can get lower. Think the same thing with the tCs. Well I don't know what exactly was happening other than I BELIEVE that when I had the car lower than normal and I would hit a decent bump with the STOCK end links in it would make a sound like the strut was bottoming out. But I think when the car would compress the suspenion it would try to go farther than the end link and sway bar would let it go thus not really bottoming out the strut but something else was hitting. I have since removed the end links from the struts and sway bar and now that sound has disappeared other than when the air in my front bags are really low and I hit a bump. I don't recommend removing the end links and sway bar since it helps with stability. But I personally haven't noticed a big difference in the ride. Maybe a little more body roll but I can still take corner like I could with it stock. at different Speeds ;). Only problem now is my sway bar is just sitting there and on some bumps it rotates up and down and hit my lower control arm. Not hard but just clanks so more annoying than anything. I tried to remove it but the mounts are in between the body of the car and the whole lower suspension cross member and behind the front axels. Looking at the Toyota Tech book it shows you have to basically remove whole cross member which includes unhooking steering and other things to get it out. basically more than a one person job and would probably need a whole weekend at least a whole day non stop which I can't be without the car that long right now until wife gets her a new vehicle. |
Ok, im learning some things here. I like what your saying about the Tein S-Techs, and I think Im gonna look at getting these, as far as lowering the car thats cool, it will look nice. What else would I upgrade after adding the S-Techs? And what are bump stops and inner fender liners? Will i have issues with these things?
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If gettign the s.Techs then you just need the springs and new struts and shocks if you want them, but not necessity right off. When you take the front strut out you will see a yellowish piece of like hard foam. This is the bump stop. It basically help stop the car from bottomening out and causing you tires to hit the inner fender liners and such. Some cars like s10s have them in front on the lower control are and in the rear over the axle to prevent the control arms and axle from hitting the frame on big bumps. The s.Tech should include instructions on how much to cut out of it. By cutting it you are allowing the the car to sit lower without sitting on the bump stop. if the car is sitting on the bumpstop it will limit the amount of suspension travel and cause it to have a rough ride.
The inner fender liner is the plastic piece in teh front wheel well that prevents rain and debris from entering the engine bay. I would not worry about removing these or cutting these unless it becomes necessary. You may end up with a slight rub on big bumps or hard turns at speed and maybe at slow speed at a full turn. This rubbing maybe so sparatic and so minimal you may not need to do anything. Or you may have no rubbing at all. Or in some cases it may rub all the time. then just cut out area rubbing or remove entirely. All cars even the same models are different and all springs even same models can have slight differences so you never know until you do it. |
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well, 2.2 drop is 2.2 inches. the teins will drop your car just a little bit more than 2 inches from stock. and if you go with them, they come with all the instructions to install them. like resolve said, the bump stops are a yellow piece of foam. Tein suggests cutting about an inch or so off of it, but i just cut mine right in half. i dont have any issues with hitting them now. the only time i "bottom out" is if i come off a significant dip in the road.
and as far as rubbing on the inner fender liners, that can vary from vehicle to vehicle. i know people who have had these springs on their xd with absolutely no issue with rubbing. i personally have a 2011, not sure if they made any modifications with the suspension, but on my 18s i rubbed at the slightest bump. it got to be really annoying at first, but after a week or so i could finally get down there and see a small whole where i was actually hitting the liner. at that point i took out my dremel and made the hole bigger. that mostly fixed it but, eventually i kept rubbing on bumps, when i was turning and then finally, a big enough piece of plastic got caught by my tire and i literally ripped the entire passenger liner out. lol. i still have a lil of the driver side, but its all cut up so i dont rub it. to install the springs, it can be done with 2 people, a couple of jacks and simple tools and a couple hours. the back can be done in like 15 minutes. the front took us a lil longer because we didnt realize at first you have to remove the wiper cowl to get to the bolts on the top of the front struts. i could now have springs changed on our cars in an hour tops! im actually thinking about going to 17 inch wheels to see if that will give me a lil more clearance. and also, the new shocks after the springs is not a necessity, but a recommendation. im still running stock shocks and struts. your ride could improve a lil because you would then have shocks using their full capabilities rather than having them constricted because they are too long. but i personally will ride my stock ones til they need replacing. at that point i will prolly switch to shorter ones |
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But as far as the spring rate the number before / is metric and after / is standard (american for lack of terms) what you will be worried about it the standard side in this case the 168 and 196. What this means is this is how many pounds of force it takes to compress the spring one inch. So the front springs take 168 lbs. to compress 1 inch and the rears take 196 lbs. to compress one inch. As for you just going to buy springs off the shelf you won't have to worry to much about spring rates. most companies will be relatively the same. that becomes key when trying to do some fine tuning for specific applications and gettign custom springs. |
Cool, ok. I got this now. I appreciate all the help here. So once I get the springs, I doubt I will want to pay to have them installed, so even though I have never done this, I will attempt to install them with a friend of mine. Cause I do have a couple jacks, and simple tools. I thought more would be involved. And for the fender liners, I will cross that bridge when I get to it, are the stock wheels 18 inch on the xd, cause my wheels are stock.
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stock is 16in wheels. air tools make things easier of course (not required but yea) and rent a spring compressor from autozone for the fronts. teins will do you real well until you wanna go lower, which then youll have to go bags or coils.
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Here is a quick write up I did before.
The rear: Jack the rear up until the tires are off the ground a decent bit. Use jack stands if you have them. With the rear of the car off the ground unbolt the rear shocks from the rear crossmember then have a person push down on the tire while another person pulls the sping out. If the wheel is high enough off the ground, just a few inches, the one person can push the wheels down far enough to pull the spring out. It will take a little force to pull the spring out over the little nipples that hold the spring in but not a whole lot. Once the old spring are out. Then do the reverse to put new springs in. have some one push down and slide the new spring in and then re-attach the shcoks and drop it down. It took me alomost as long to explain it as it takes to do it. lol. You can takle the tires off if you want. But this way means no removing tires then putting them back on. = saves time. The front: first off either have or go buy a dog bone wrench. like This will have multiple socket style opening with different sizes but the are open all the way through. Open the hood and remove the cowling under the window. the top plastic I believe is all plastic clips once the top plastic is removed there are like 15 blots to remove plus the windshield wipers and wiper motor. Once you get the whole cowling off take the dog bone wrench and put the correct size over the nut then take an allen key that fits the top strut mount and sit it through the bone wrench socket and into the top allen key hole on the strut. This will take two people to do. One person will hold the dog bone and the other will hold the allen key to keep the strut shaft from turning. the eastiest thing to do is to put a box end wrench over the allen key for leverage and hold it while the second persond turns the dog bone wrench. Do all of this while the front tires are still on the ground. Once it is loose on both sides, but not taken all the way off. jack up the front of the car and put on jack stands. and remove all nuts and bolts to remove the strut. yes wheels have to come off the front. Once the bolts at the bottom end of the strut are removed. You can go back to the top mount and remove the bolt completely, this takes two people. One person to hold the strut at the bottom and one to remove top bolt. Now with strut off. if you have spring compressors then put them on and remove nut holding top plate and spring in. If you do not have spring compressors do the next at your own risk. just unbolt the nut until it is near the top of the threads and then hold your hand over the nut while you are turning the bolt. it will pop up when it breaks free but not with alot of insane force. Your hand being over the bolt and wrench will keep everytihng from shooting out and becoming flying projectiles. then pull spring off put new one on. adjust bumpstops and reput the top mount and all on.. you can tighten the bolt that hold the top mount on completely tight. then slid the strut back in. again two people one to put strut in the second to guide the top of the strut through the hole and to start threading the bolt. once the bolt is started a good amount to hold the strut. reattach all bolts and stuff under the car put the tires on and lower the car. once the car is on the ground tighten the top bolt the same way you loosened it. once completely tight. then reinstall the cowling. and dont forget to put the plug for your wiper in the cowling area plug up the wipers before you comepletly close it off. once everything is back together you are good to go. Once you are looking at the car all of this will make alot more sense. |
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Ok, well since my wheels are stock at 16in then i shouldnt have to worry about the fender liners? Right? And wow :boxed: that sounds like alot of work, i have never done anything like that. As much as i would like to do all the work on my car i may need to go get the springs installed. lol
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no worries on fenders. and its really worth doing. once its done and settled you really feel good about it.
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It looks like alot of work but it's really not. even with you not knowing how to with some help I say a 2 hour job tops.
and one thing I don't get is why does everyone thing wheel size affect rubbing and all. This is not directed towards anyone I just want to know? Wheel size is not the factor at all. The main factor is the overall diameter of the wheel tire combo as well as width. If you have 16 inch wheels and go to an 18 inch does not mean you are going to rub. If the 16s did not rub and your overall wheel and tire combo are say 24 inch diameter and 7 inch wide, and you get an 18 inch wheel and the compensated tire size so that your wheel and tire size are the same 24 inch diameter and 7 inches wide then you will not rub. Wheel size alone mean nothing. Alot of people rubbing because of their wheels is more to do with the width being wider than the overall size of the wheel tire combo. I have the stock tC wheels and my overall diameter is actually less than the stock 16 wheel tire combo. but I rub more on corners at lower heights because the width of the wheel is wider by like 1 to 1.5 inches. The main thing to remember is to keep the overall diameter of the wheel and tire combo the same. This way your speedometer will stay correct. If your original overall diameter is 24 inches, then regardless of a 16 to 22 inch wheel you should get a tire that keeps the diameter at 24 inches. I AM JUST SAYING REDUCING YOUR WHEEL SIZE ALONE WILL NOT REMOVE RUBBING IF YOU KEEP THE SAME OVERALL DIAMETER. JUST WANTED TO STATE THAT YOU COULD KEEP THE SAME WHEEL JUST REDUCE YOUR TIRE SIZE. BUT THIS WILL AFFECT YOUR SPEEDO. WITH MY XD MY SPEEDO IS ABOUT 3 MPH FAST NOW BECAUSE OF MY OVERALL DIAMETER BEING SMALLER. This is based an multiple radars in consturctions zones posting your speed. If my speedo says 65 they state I am at about 62. sorry end rant. |
"If you have 16 inch wheels and go to an 18 inch does not mean you are going to rub. If the 16s did not rub and your overall wheel and tire combo are say 24 inch diameter and 7 inch wide, and you get an 18 inch wheel and the compensated tire size so that your wheel and tire size are the same 24 inch diameter and 7 inches wide then you will not rub. Wheel size alone mean nothing. "
@Resolve...yes you are correct!! i may have mispoken earlier, but yes the overall wheel size does not matter. the combo of wheel and tire is the difference maker. i had stated i wanted to go with smaller wheels to eliminate rubbing because i would put smaller tires on them. ive even just thought about putting smaller tires on my stock steelies to help out. so your rant is justified. lol Quote:
as far as doing the work kyle, dont let it intimidate you. prior to this car, i had only worked on trucks. i can tell you that lowering this vehicle is night and day compared to others ive worked on. and i dont claim to be a mechanic by any means, but i have a basic idea of what to do. with that being said, it really isnt that much work. took me 2 hours tops because we were kinda learning as we went. with resolves write up earlier, which was awesome by the way, plus another set of hands, it shouldnt be tough. i even went as far as printing a step by step how to with pictures on how to change springs on a Yaris (our cars use the same suspension and chassis) dont be scared bro, it really is simple. and you really cant mess anything up, all your doing is undoing bolts and then putting it back together. i would find a friend who has a lil bit of knowledge to help before i paid someone to install them for me. and like thisorthatxd said, you feel really good when its done and you did it yourself!:winner_third_h4h: |
@sweet - that was in no way attacking anyone here. I just see it on millions of auto sites. where people are like I rub bad with 18s so I thinking of going with 16s or so on. Which is not correct way to look at it. Especially when I see people asking on these same sites about wanting to lower a vehicle and asking about rubbing and wheels. and lots of people say get a smaller wheel and so on. If you went to a shop and they gave you 16s instead of your 18s and gave you wheels based on your vehicle and you find out you still rub I bet you would be mad at spending that money when you could have spent less and just reduced your tire size.
I just more so don't want anyone seeing some 18s or something they like but not get them becuase they are worried about rubbing due to rim size you know. when in actuality they may have no problem. But just to you and anyone else wanting to change tire size remember any thing that is more than about 3% will have a noticeable affect on your speedo reading. also the great the change the more your distance from the ground will change. Basically just half to total change and that is the amount of ground cleareance change. So say you reduce you over diameter by 1 inch. Your car will now be 1/2 inch lower just do to the tire change. I have a 94 s10 that I have dropped 5/6 static drop on suspension. But I reduced the tire size on the stock wheels. both due to rubbing in front and to get lower. The amount of change in tires also reduced my ride height but about another 3/4 to 1 lower. so total drop is about 6/7 between suspension and tires. |
Ok, so I will install them myself!! I know it will be much more worth it when its done. And that's some good stuff on tire/wheel size, I never knew that so I will have to keep that in mind. I'm hoping to get those springs sometime in Jan. and I'm also working on getting some pictures up here soon.
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lol so much reading O_x.
@ resolve : just to clarify i just knew he would be fine on the stock 16's. your rant is completely correct and is something thats banging around my head a lot these days. my coilovers come in today (wewt!) and im looking into a new wheel setup for spring. i know im going 17 or 18 but just all the different widths and then looking for a nice stretch on tires is just zooming through my head. cant wait till its all on. @ kylexd : cant wait to see the final product. i think youre one of the closest soon-to-be modified xD's to me. about time i get some competition lol. |
nice deal on the coilover. You ordered the one's from Steve right.
@Kyle. Nice good luck with the install. |
Yes, thank you all for the help and support, this is still a new realm to me and im enjoying the chance to grow and learn here. Hopefully I can get started sooner than later on my mods.
@ThisorThat: How far are you from the hampton roads area. I also dont know anyone else with a xd, much less a modded one, lol |
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kyle...just for a quick reference this is how mine sits with the Teins on the stock wheels and tire set up. it sits literally right on top of the tires. so you can kinda see how the chance of rubbing is there. but, i think it sits perfect!
i apologize for the dirty car and crappy picture. and i took this picture right after i put them on. 2 or 3 months ago. its settled down just a hair bit more since then |
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